For the last 20-odd years, one of my guilty pleasures has been coaching high-school age basketball (nothing fancy, mostly church league, although I do have an undefeated record as a high school varsity coach). One of my takeaways from when I've had old players that I've talked to when they dropped by over the years is that I've had kids who've gone to all sorts of schools, and no matter where they went probably 95%+ loved wherever they ended up. I loved my own experiences in the places I attended, even though I retrospect I could have made much better use of the opportunities and resources that were available to me, but I was too young and dumb to appreciate it at the time.
It's been a comfort to me to know that as my own kids have gotten to the "choosing a college" stage (#2 child is a high school senior this year), no matter where they wind up, they'll likely enjoy it. Now the challenge is to steer them into making good use of the opportunities they'll be presented without them realizing that I'm doing it...
SteelyKid is in ninth grade, so the big decision points are still a few years off for us, but I can see the train speeding toward the tunnel, as it were. Good luck with your kid.
I do point out that much of what we know does matter to students in the end is stuff that no 17-year old on Earth could possibly understand in advance as mattering, and frequently even recent graduates don't understand as having mattered until much later, if ever. When I think back to my own undergraduate education, it's only long years as a faculty member that make me able to understand what was *really* going on a number of occasions that were nevertheless important (in mostly good ways) in shaping my education in terms of what was available to me or in terms of experiences I had.
I do think that some undergraduates are very unfortunate to be at institutions that appear to be just what they wanted based on rankings and reputation but which happen to be in a really bad patch when it comes to institutional leadership, when it comes to the current culture in a department or program they want to study, etc. and there is just no way to know that in advance or even know that you should want to know it. So that's information that is highly consequential to outcomes.
The analogy I used sometimes is that if you're a first-time home buyer there is an immense amount of information that you're supposed to seek out and a lot of advice about what to do and check and decide upon. But it's often a fast-moving situation--there are other bidders, maybe you really need a place to live, maybe there's a kid on the way--and it's too much to process. Only afterwards do you realize that the fact that the windows are really old and don't open well and will cost tens of thousands of dollars to replace makes a momentous difference in your quality of life in that house. Only afterwards do you realize (after the warranty, after the closing) that the previous owner hid some bad DIY from you that has to be fixed eventually. Next time you'll know to check the windows. But there is no next time for most undergraduates.
I think the school's reputation matters as a way to (hopefully) distinguish yourself in the marketplace. It also matters in that the connections you forge there will be the building blocs of your professional network.
So getting into the "best" school you can pretend to matters.
But it's not because the school will be able to perform miracles on you. Just as it is in high schools and prior, the "value add" of almost all schools is extremely low.
"....It’s a little jarring to my self-image as a Science Guy that whenever I write about this stuff I end up in this wibbling “Enh, numbers don’t matter” place. Not sure what that says. ..."
That college is not a paint-by-numbers experience.
For the last 20-odd years, one of my guilty pleasures has been coaching high-school age basketball (nothing fancy, mostly church league, although I do have an undefeated record as a high school varsity coach). One of my takeaways from when I've had old players that I've talked to when they dropped by over the years is that I've had kids who've gone to all sorts of schools, and no matter where they went probably 95%+ loved wherever they ended up. I loved my own experiences in the places I attended, even though I retrospect I could have made much better use of the opportunities and resources that were available to me, but I was too young and dumb to appreciate it at the time.
It's been a comfort to me to know that as my own kids have gotten to the "choosing a college" stage (#2 child is a high school senior this year), no matter where they wind up, they'll likely enjoy it. Now the challenge is to steer them into making good use of the opportunities they'll be presented without them realizing that I'm doing it...
SteelyKid is in ninth grade, so the big decision points are still a few years off for us, but I can see the train speeding toward the tunnel, as it were. Good luck with your kid.
I do point out that much of what we know does matter to students in the end is stuff that no 17-year old on Earth could possibly understand in advance as mattering, and frequently even recent graduates don't understand as having mattered until much later, if ever. When I think back to my own undergraduate education, it's only long years as a faculty member that make me able to understand what was *really* going on a number of occasions that were nevertheless important (in mostly good ways) in shaping my education in terms of what was available to me or in terms of experiences I had.
I do think that some undergraduates are very unfortunate to be at institutions that appear to be just what they wanted based on rankings and reputation but which happen to be in a really bad patch when it comes to institutional leadership, when it comes to the current culture in a department or program they want to study, etc. and there is just no way to know that in advance or even know that you should want to know it. So that's information that is highly consequential to outcomes.
The analogy I used sometimes is that if you're a first-time home buyer there is an immense amount of information that you're supposed to seek out and a lot of advice about what to do and check and decide upon. But it's often a fast-moving situation--there are other bidders, maybe you really need a place to live, maybe there's a kid on the way--and it's too much to process. Only afterwards do you realize that the fact that the windows are really old and don't open well and will cost tens of thousands of dollars to replace makes a momentous difference in your quality of life in that house. Only afterwards do you realize (after the warranty, after the closing) that the previous owner hid some bad DIY from you that has to be fixed eventually. Next time you'll know to check the windows. But there is no next time for most undergraduates.
I think the school's reputation matters as a way to (hopefully) distinguish yourself in the marketplace. It also matters in that the connections you forge there will be the building blocs of your professional network.
So getting into the "best" school you can pretend to matters.
But it's not because the school will be able to perform miracles on you. Just as it is in high schools and prior, the "value add" of almost all schools is extremely low.
"....It’s a little jarring to my self-image as a Science Guy that whenever I write about this stuff I end up in this wibbling “Enh, numbers don’t matter” place. Not sure what that says. ..."
That college is not a paint-by-numbers experience.